Slash's World: Backstage

Attila

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/2012/01/quit_whining_about_sopa_and_pi.php

What a load of crap.

He doesn't seem to know how the Internet works or otherwise he wouldn't have written this. I agree that the whining online is annoying but asking where the public outrage is about piracy is like asking why nobody protests against shoplifting or drug use. Good headline writing by some editor to get more visitors to Seattle Weekly??

BTW, youtube is an example of a place that did implement incredible monitoring for copyrighted material. Even so good that it flags content that is not even copyrighted (news reporting/fair use) and it takes down anything where there is the smallest sign that a song snippet in the background might be owned by someone else.

Recording studios close because everyone with a bit of talent and 1K in his or her pocket can record something that sounds better than many things that were done in the 80s with a budget of 100k or more. It doesn't take a genius to record music anymore. Is it the fault of piracy? I don't think so. It also doesn't take much to get your stuff out there. And if it's any good, you might even build up a following and build a career out of it.

Most record stores closed because people don't need CDs or records anymore (except for a smaller niche market of course). You can LEGALLY download anything you want and if it's available in your country, you can LEGALLY stream without ever paying a penny for music.

This is how the music lover used to spend his money:

When your favourite album came out on vinyl. You bought it
technology advanced and you wanted it on cassette. You bought it AGAIN
technology advanced and you wanted it on CD. You bought it AGAIN (the record industry might've been generous and added a bonus track to make it worth your $15)
technology advanced again and you wanted it on your mp3 player. This is where it started to affect the record industry (note: yes, I didn't say musician...)
fast forward to 2012 and people are streaming albums legally instead of buying them

The music industry made a killing on each new format that came out without ever releasing anything new. When CD's were about to hit the market, they stayed at the prices of vinyl. Even though it was much cheaper to produce and distribute. The consumer took it and the industry loved it. And the same logic was applied to downloads. They cost the same (or more!!!) as the physical CDs but you don't have manufacturing or distribution costs. People can vote with their wallets and many of them did. If you don't make enough $$ from your music, take a look at your business model and see why it doesn't add up.

As a consumer, I sometimes find myself trying to decide if I should buy a movie on DVD or as a download. Ultimately, I want it on a harddrive because I don't want to have shelves full of DVDs. But if the download costs double of what the DVD costs in the store, I'm having a hard time trying to work out how prices are set by this industry.

And stop limiting where your file is available for purchase!!! All these places don't even allow me buy certain work because they tell me it's not available outside the US... In contrast you could look at the BBC: they released an app that gives people outside the UK access to BBC content for a subscription fee. Instead of spending millions on trying to control who can and who can't see your content, you could focus on getting it into everybody's hands and because of the way the Internet works: your distribution costs will be more than reasonable.

Bottom line: you want to fight piracy? Make your work available everywhere and price things accordingly. This has to come from the industry, not government. It will not kill piracy (nothing will), but you will make more money at the end of the day.

BTW: I paid more for Duff's book because I wanted to read it on a kindle instead of having another dust collector on my shelves after I'm done with it... Thanks for that, too.

Spazzy_McGee

Haha, someone's annoyed.. :lol:

While I do agree with pretty much everything you said there, and disagree with most of what Duff said, I have to say I did kinda agree with him about the lack of public outrage over piracy. Or at least, I see his point.

Piracy is bad for musicians, or was at least. Not exactly for hugely successful people like Duff, but for the smaller guys. Sure, some people say that music is an art and should be spread freely to the masses, but I'm pretty sure if you're a hardworking but struggling musician in the current economic climate and everyone is illegally downloading your music for free when you can't even pay your bills, it's gotta be pretty shit. However, it's not gonna stop, so musicians have to change their business plan. You can't make money from the music itself anymore, so you give that away for free and make money in other ways, like Trent Reznor and Radiohead have perfectly demonstrated. But it's gonna take time for the industry to change.

And yeah, you've just explained how you pay for all the music you buy, even multiple times if you want it on different formats, but a shitload of people don't, as you know. Way too many people.. they don't seem to think that the musicians deserve it. I've met way too many people who all seem to think that all musicians in bands that actually have albums out are somehow rich and living the rockstar lifestyle haha. It's kinda worrying.

Duff was just saying that the Twitter masses who were trying to be all great and heroic standing up, speaking out and protesting against SOPA/PIPA because it will take away their "right to freedom of information" are completely ignoring the REAL issue which this whole thing was about in the first place which is piracy. They've never once stood up and spoken out against that. Why? Because why would they? They love getting free shit. They're not gonna stop getting something for free when there are no repercussions and they can't be held liable. Which leads me to agree with another of Duffs points... that most of the Twitter masses don't actually give a shit about the "right to freedom of information" thing, they just don't want someone stopping them from getting the new Black Keys album, or the new series of Dexter, for free. They're anti-SOPA/PIPA because they're pro-piracy. Not everyone, obviously, but a lot of them. Probably a majority.

And as for asking why nobody protests about shoplifting or drug use.. well in some cases, they do. Celebrities that get caught doing those things are usually completely slammed and torn apart on Twitter. Twitter wouldn't shut up about the London Riot looters and that silly prick who stole a bag of Basmati Rice from Tesco. There was the guy who put a picture on Facebook of him posing next to all the DVD's and Xbox Games he'd stolen. The image was circulated on Facebook and Twitter with people trying to find out who this "scum" was to get him arrested. However, if he'd just illegally downloaded those films and games and put a screenshot of BitTorrent up on Facebook, nobody would give a shit.

I just think that 90% of the anti-SOPA/PIPA online campaigners were either just bandwagon-jumpers who didn't really understand what they were talking about, or were just pretending to be angry about the possible breach of their rights, but really just wanted to keep getting shit for free.

Ezikiel

maybe if musicians started making good albums again that are worth paying 10 quid or whatever instead of relying on the success of singles, people may not resort to piracy and be actually content with album purchases.

Duff needs to understand this is not really about piracy, the issue of piracy has been in debate for ages. This is about the government trying to steal the lolcats.

BTW vinyl sales were up 30% in 2011.

Attila

Spazzy_McGee said:
Piracy is bad for musicians, or was at least. Not exactly for hugely successful people like Duff, but for the smaller guys. Sure, some people say that music is an art and should be spread freely to the masses, but I'm pretty sure if you're a hardworking but struggling musician in the current economic climate and everyone is illegally downloading your music for free when you can't even pay your bills, it's gotta be pretty shit.

I have to disagree with that. If you're good enough and "out there" so that there's enough people interested in your music to steal huge numbers of it, you're going to have no problem taking advantage of your existing audience and make money. Piracy is a bigger problem for the "big business" part of the music industry.

All the poster boys of the new way of giving away your music or "pay what you can" models are mainly already established and have a big audience. There are also a few that managed to make a living by giving away stuff and slowly building their community of "fans".

I don't know about you but if someone offers me a free download of their music (for example those specials on iTunes), more often than not, I'm not even interested in getting their shit for free because IT SUCKS

Spazzy_McGee said:
And yeah, you've just explained how you pay for all the music you buy, even multiple times if you want it on different formats, but a shitload of people don't, as you know. Way too many people.. they don't seem to think that the musicians deserve it. I've met way too many people who all seem to think that all musicians in bands that actually have albums out are somehow rich and living the rockstar lifestyle haha. It's kinda worrying.

If it's about money: I want to know what percentage of each sale actually ends up in the musician's hand! After marketing, the record label's cut, any other costs... What's actually left??? They could probably get a much bigger cut if they didn't rely on record companies (they already have the fanbase and let's face it: there's hardly any effort put into promoting rock albums these days. Not even Chinese Democracy got the push it should've gotten)

And then we haven't even talked about what rights they often have to give up in their record deals...

Spazzy_McGee said:
Duff was just saying that the Twitter masses who were trying to be all great and heroic standing up, speaking out and protesting against SOPA/PIPA because it will take away their "right to freedom of information" are completely ignoring the REAL issue which this whole thing was about in the first place which is piracy. They've never once stood up and spoken out against that. Why? Because why would they? They love getting free shit. They're not gonna stop getting something for free when there are no repercussions and they can't be held liable. Which leads me to agree with another of Duffs points... that most of the Twitter masses don't actually give a shit about the "right to freedom of information" thing, they just don't want someone stopping them from getting the new Black Keys album, or the new series of Dexter, for free. They're anti-SOPA/PIPA because they're pro-piracy. Not everyone, obviously, but a lot of them. Probably a majority.

He does have a point there. "freedom" is probably one of the most overused and meaningless words at the moment. It's always the easiest way to end a discussion.

Spazzy_McGee said:
I just think that 90% of the anti-SOPA/PIPA online campaigners were either just bandwagon-jumpers who didn't really understand what they were talking about, or were just pretending to be angry about the possible breach of their rights, but really just wanted to keep getting shit for free.

I agree. I loved how some said that it'll affect sites that are .com and therefore "located in the US". What does "located in the US" even mean?! What if the servers are all over the world? Is it about server location? Business location? Does location even matter anymore?! It has to, right? Otherwise you can't arrest people anymore.

@Ezzy:

lolcatz will always survive! they will create their own sub-internet once everything is killed and we'll get our constant stream of lulz from the new web!

that's cool about vinyl! I didn't know that

Nevaratoiel

I think artists should also realise there's a world-wide economical crisis... I, for one, have no money to buy CDs, DVDs and whatever. Yes, I admit I download stuff illegally. If I had enough money I would buy everything I wanted to have in a store. Because I am someone who does that. I used to buy everything in the store. It's just the last year that I started downloading stuff, because I just can't afford it.

I do agree with Spazzy about the 90% being wagon-jumpers wanting to get their shit for free. I must say, being from a country who is known for "Look, look, and not buying" I can even understand those people. But then again, I understand that a lot of artists have to earn their money too. Especially the starters. I just don't have any pity for the already established artists. They have enough money. If Slash buys his wife a car worth more than $100K... that's where I draw the line.

The trend these days is, the rich become richer and the poor become poorer. I've seen it happening in my country. They spend I don't know how many million $$$ for a wall, because 12 people were complaining about traffic noise, and it's ugly as hell, but they can't even support the poor. Something's gone wrong.

I think Duff should just stuff it and just go mingle with other rich people and keep his little world intact...

Sorry if I went a little off topic, I'm just frustrated with all the limitations they're trying to force on us... Freedom? My ass...

Spazzy_McGee

At the end of the day, I just think.. they sorta deserve the money. It doesn't matter how rich they are, it's a product that cost money to make, and they deserved to be paid for it. That's how the world works.. it isn't just a free gift for you.

Occasionally they do purposefully give away stuff for free to thank the fans for their support, like Radiohead letting the fans decide how much they wanted to pay, but most of the time, the record company will give them an advance to make a record, and then they'll expect all that money back.

Just because Apple are a multi-billion dollar company and they don't NEED your extra $200 doesn't mean you'd walk into an Apple Store and just steal an iPod. Any normal person wouldn't go and steal a can of coke from a Wal-Mart either. So you can't justify your theft of music by saying that they're already rich enough.

SOPA was bullshit, and Duff kinda missed the mark on a lot of what he was saying, but he was right about his main point: Piracy is bullshit and should be stopped.. but most of the anti-SOPA ranters don't actually give a fuck about Piracy.

Nevaratoiel

No, I don't agree with you there. I understand the need to make money, I understand those people have worked hard to make that kind of money. I respect that. But you know, I work hard too (at least once I have job again, which is tough in this society) and I really don't make that kind of money. And a lot of people with me.

I would never say that piracy is a good thing. But the thing is, it's nothing new. When we still had cassettes, people would copy them. Then the CDs came and people would copy them again too. And you know what the best part of that is? The companies that are/were moaning about it were selling those writeable cassettes and CDs, and in the process help us people to piracy. People would just copy the music, films, etc. instead of buying the originals. In a way, they were encouraging us to buy the writeables and copy them. And I've known people who made big business in selling those copies.

And now, ever since the same principle came on-line (and I know it's on a bigger scale than it was before) they're suddenly moaning about loss of income, when in fact the effect is only relatively small. When there are still people waiting in line to get the new iPhone, a new album, the new film, or whatever, they will still have their high sales. And those sales are not for the faint hearted.

One of my main points is, though, not so much the fact that they're trying to take away our 'free shit', but the fact they're trying to limit our freedom of sharing, or, seeing the bigger picture, freedom in a more general sense. I may get off topic here, but I think there's a much bigger issue here than most people realise. People, mostly in the 'Western' continents, are brought up with the promise of freedom. We're pretty much raised that we can do whatever we want... if... and here it comes, if we play by the rules that the government set up for us. If only values were enough. I do understand the need for rules and laws. But does this give us freedom? My answer? Nope. Not in a million years.

What annoys me the most is that the governments, the big companies, the rich people are constricting our relative freedom even more. We are allowed to do less and less. We're not the criminals; the governments, the multinationals, the banks, the riches... They are the bad seeds in my opinion. They limit our 'freedom'. We're the puppets, they're the puppet masters. And I think we shouldn't let ourselves be walked over.

I can write about this for hours, but I have a job search to do, so I'll end with the following...

I have a really interesting link a found a while. It explains well how SOPA/PIPA works and why to defend our freedom to create, discuss, link and share.

http://www.ted.com/talks/defend_our_freedom_to_share_or_why_sopa_is_a_bad_idea.html?awesm=on.ted.com_AElq&utm_campaign=defend_our_freedom_to_share_or_why_sopa_is_a_bad_idea&utm_medium=on.ted.com-twitter&utm_source=t.co&utm_content=ted.com-talkpage

Spazzy_McGee

But we're not talking about SOPA.. like I said, SOPA was bullshit. And yes, would have allowed the government to totally limit our freedom of information. The point is, and the point that Duff was trying to make, was that 90% of the people ranting on Twitter and such about SOPA didn't actually understand/give a shit about their loss of freedom.. They just didn't want to have to start paying for stuff.

And again, I just think it's a matter of morals and principles. I couldn't care less about how rich they already are, I pay for things. If you're poor and can't afford something because "times are hard" then.. you don't get to have it. That's just life. You work and earn money in return for doing a service, you can then use that money to purchase things you want/need from other people doing their jobs. If you haven't got the money to buy an album, then you don't get to own said album.

I know piracy has been going on forever, and there's not really any way of stopping it, I just wish people would admit "yeah, I'm cheap and I steal music" rather than blab on about some bullshit political agenda.

"I illegally downloaded the new Van Halen album because, y'know, fuck the government and their rules!" Haha, whatever.

Attila

Spazzy_McGee said:
And again, I just think it's a matter of morals and principles. I couldn't care less about how rich they already are, I pay for things. If you're poor and can't afford something because "times are hard" then.. you don't get to have it. That's just life. You work and earn money in return for doing a service, you can then use that money to purchase things you want/need from other people doing their jobs. If you haven't got the money to buy an album, then you don't get to own said album.

I agree 100%! If you can't afford the album it doesn't justify the stealing.

I get it: some people lost their jobs and it's tough to get a new one. If you can't afford music, go and listen to the radio. That's free. Or you might even be able to legally stream music "à la carte" if you deal with the occasional ad. That's great. And if you don't like what they play on the radio, you probably still have a collection of old stuff to listen to.

The system is flawed. The rich are getting richer (bla bla bla) Without diving too deep into it, I don't think there's a system that works 100% of the time and for everyone. But you can't just blame the governments, corporations or rich people for your own destiny. Get out there. Work night shifts. Get a job that's "beneath you". I know that sometimes people really are in impossible situations (illness, disabilities or whatever) but more often than not, it's just easy to blame others.

And if you're one of the non-materialistic people who choose to be homeless and unemployed: good for you. You're probably not reading this right now if you're one of them.

Nevaratoiel

I guess two people against one is too much, haha!

I'm not just blaming the governments, because even the common man is in one way to blame. But governments and the rich have a better position in everything that happens.

You don't want to know how many shitty jobs I've had in my life. I've done many jobs 'beneath' me. It's not like I don't try. I don't hope you're assuming to know in what position I'm in right now, and I won't explain it because it's way too complicated.

But when you're talking about people who are in 'impossible' situations; I know someone really close who is, he still lives with his parents, because he can't live on his own because of his problems and he can't work. And he's about lose all of his income because the government is cutting the budgets, just because his parents earn more money than the set limit. So his parents, if they don't think of something, will have to pay all his expenses. How is that fair?

Yes, I know I'm going way off topic here, but I just think the world is unfair. And about the 'rich becoming richer', it's a fact and that's also unfair. A lot of people work harder and get a fraction of that money. The system is flawed, but I think it's time we stood up against all limitations and rules.

And that's where my bitterness and frustration comes from.

I'll shut up now, if that's alright. :)

Attila

Since nobody will ever see this page, it's OK for you to be wrong :P

and BTW: I'm not assuming anything about your position. I was generalising (because that always works out really well :D )

Time to stand up against limitations and rules? OK... And then what?!

What's the solution? Get rich people to pay the bills of the poor? Equally distribute all the money that's in a country's magical pot of gold? Awesome. Let's do that

:rolleyes:

Stealing music is wrong but at the same time I don't think it should be treated in the way it's treated right now (locking people up or fining them crazy amounts to make an example out of someone). And preventing people from stealing is a good idea but it simply doesn't work... Ah well... Since you said you'll shut up, I'll shut up too.

Good luck with your job search.

Spazzy_McGee

Totally agree, Atti. But everyone has shut up now, so I guess I'll do the same.

Although, I will just say.. it makes me laugh when people steal music/films/whatever because they're against corporate "greed".

I'll tell you what's a bit greedy... Deciding you're not gonna pay for an album or a film and just illegally downloading it just because.. you want it. You want it for free. You don't wanna have to earn your luxury and entertainment, you just want all of the music, films, TV shows, books, podcasts etc. right there and then. That sounds a bit greedy to me.

Anyway...

:-D

WolfpacSnakepit

I know I'm late to this conversation but I don't care :P

When I was a kid my mum taught me that I have to earn everything I get. She explained that stealing has consequences. For example, I remember she told me once when I was very little that if I steal a chocolate bar from a shop, the shop owner loses money... and what if so many people steal that the poor shop owner can't afford to buy his children Christmas gifts because of all the money he lost? Now that may sound extremely excessive but that always stuck in my mind - everytime someone steals someone is being affected negatively.

I believe that if I don't work and earn something then I don't deserve it - this is why I've always personally been against piracy. Sure, as everyone has, I've downloaded things before but I can guarantee you that it's only because it wasn't available in Australia. Example: I waited weeks for Sixx:AM's EP "7" to come out that I just ended up downloading it. However, as soon as it was available I bought it.

I can also guarantee you that I have more legit copies of DVDs, Blu-rays, CDs and games than most people will ever own in their lifetime.

It fucking shits me that I do the right thing and purchase shit legally while others feel its their "right" to watch a movie or listen to an album and that they get to download it for free. Why the fuck should I pay whilst others get it for nothing?

But hey, this is just my personal opinion and others obviously feel differently. I do see both sides and I guess a lot of people see piracy as a victimless crime but it's really not... People like me are the victims when we are the ones that do the right thing and actually purchase the movies/music.

As Attila said above, the music and movie industries need to re-think their strategies and come up with better ways to sell their products to reduce piracy.

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